tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post372430667531944927..comments2024-03-25T09:31:36.926+01:00Comments on Furahan Biology and Allied Matters: Swimming in Sand III: real and robotic sandswimmersSigmund Nastrazzurrohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-40067789090121594902011-05-28T17:23:45.917+02:002011-05-28T17:23:45.917+02:00Hello Anonymous,
Thank you. I had a look and left...Hello Anonymous,<br /><br />Thank you. I had a look and left a comment.Sigmund Nastrazzurrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-11041928445600165292011-05-27T19:57:31.995+02:002011-05-27T19:57:31.995+02:00Bit of an interesting follow-up, Darren Naish of T...Bit of an interesting follow-up, Darren Naish of Tetrapod Zoology has recently posted his new idea for an anaconda-sized amphisbaenid for his Squamozoic project on his blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-13925080088923407452011-03-30T22:10:49.816+02:002011-03-30T22:10:49.816+02:00Define 'reality.' Have we met an actual m...Define 'reality.' Have we met an actual mad scientist? ;)Evan Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10493966209787828900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-68931135878312298892011-03-30T21:26:22.186+02:002011-03-30T21:26:22.186+02:00i think that i have what i need to make this creat...i think that i have what i need to make this creature, and the ecosystem around it, a reality. thanks for the help. :)trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-4841307531254992522011-03-29T22:12:08.117+02:002011-03-29T22:12:08.117+02:00cont. add this to the end of the url.
204994/1/cont. add this to the end of the url.<br /><br />204994/1/trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-91887742610382830342011-03-29T22:10:31.783+02:002011-03-29T22:10:31.783+02:00i have something that may help here.
http://s1.ze...i have something that may help here.<br /><br />http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/4204994/1/trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-53531313130532397172011-03-29T14:40:06.784+02:002011-03-29T14:40:06.784+02:00looks like this topic isn't over yet. :)
well...looks like this topic isn't over yet. :)<br /><br />well, we have electromagnets, could there be a biological form of one?trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-67238425077994096942011-03-29T03:16:45.491+02:002011-03-29T03:16:45.491+02:00I think the marsupial mole burrows at least 3 or 5...I think the marsupial mole burrows at least 3 or 5 feet below the surface. but is is small.<br /><br /><br />as to the other matter...<br />maybe there are no bristles or other useable parts on the electric creature?<br /><br />e.g., a torpedo ray could use its fins...but an electric eel has no bristles or limbs or other tegument features it could use -- its only option is to take advantage of its electric capabilities. (i think they *can* run electric pulses down the length of their bodies)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-60037830042326671522011-03-29T02:49:58.985+02:002011-03-29T02:49:58.985+02:00i didn't think that your comment was sarcastic...i didn't think that your comment was sarcastic, i just felt that we have gone as far as we can with the conversation. i got help with my idea, i had fun with people that like to talk about this type of stuff, and i will now let the conversation transition away from my topic and to the next topic you will talk about. :)trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-66553048892677453762011-03-28T23:56:48.838+02:002011-03-28T23:56:48.838+02:00Trex841, perhaps you took my comments as sarcastic...Trex841, perhaps you took my comments as sarcastic, but they were not intended in that way. When I compared your magnetic theory with Dune's sandworms, that meant I felt similarly about it: I like it but to make it credible such large gaps in knowledge have to be filled that you have to stretch reality to make it fit. It was just another way of referring to the 'mystery of nature'.Sigmund Nastrazzurrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-31462113159389445032011-03-28T23:42:46.159+02:002011-03-28T23:42:46.159+02:00thanks, this was fun, helpful, and informative. i&...thanks, this was fun, helpful, and informative. i'll leave the posts to you now. bye.trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-46702389908772328952011-03-28T21:32:43.947+02:002011-03-28T21:32:43.947+02:00Well, it doesn't seem as if there is much left...Well, it doesn't seem as if there is much left for me to add to the discussion.<br /><br />Evan is right to point out that there must be considerable benefits in choosing this type of behaviour. Possible reasons are hiding from something (predators or just the heat) or alternatively getting something, either on the surface or in the sand.<br /> One thing that I have not been able to find is for how long sandswimmers actually swim. If the main purpose would be to disappear from sight, then a sandswimmer need only displace itself a few body lengths from the spot where it submerges, and that wouldn't cost much.<br /><br />As for using magnetism, that is an interesting idea. It does require a large number of assumptions to get organs that control the strength of the magnetic field as well as where the poles are. After that, you still need to shift large volumes of sand, and for the system to work the mechanical efficacy of moving sand magnetically must be at least as good as that of purely mechanical 'movers' such as bristles. So I think this system is, like Dune's sandworms, in the peculiar category of SF where we like it enough to studiously look the other way when the ugly subject of an explanation comes up.Sigmund Nastrazzurrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-32926392922827534242011-03-28T12:51:15.218+02:002011-03-28T12:51:15.218+02:00...i was just using eletric fish as a metaphore. i......i was just using eletric fish as a metaphore. if a fish can produce that much electricite, and even "see" the earths magnetic field as many creatures on earth can, then producing that magnetic field seems very possible, somehow.<br /><br />(i may have to go with the mystery of nature route here.)trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-15419312121555684202011-03-28T03:58:12.070+02:002011-03-28T03:58:12.070+02:00so, basically a sub-surface electric eel?so, basically a sub-surface electric eel?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-76107178718396382362011-03-28T02:18:04.132+02:002011-03-28T02:18:04.132+02:001. i have away around that one. the magnetic polar...1. i have away around that one. the magnetic polarities "undulate" across the body, like this<br /><br />+-+-+-+-+<br />then<br />-+-+-+-+-<br /><br />that way, the sand would move back, and the organism would move forward.<br /><br />2. ...i have nothing on that, but if we have fish that can stun a person, i don't think magnatism is out of the question. i like to beleve that almost anything can happen, the fun is finding out how. i also agree with his saying for enjoing the creature as it is, as such, i love primeval and tremors.trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-51412036061911956832011-03-28T01:06:05.591+02:002011-03-28T01:06:05.591+02:00trex841, I see two major obstacles to your "m...trex841, I see two major obstacles to your "magnetic organ" idea:<br /><br />Obstacle 1: Unless the creature has a way of selectively repelling specific particles it will likely get clumps of metal-rich sand stuck to its body, which can seriously inhibit hydrodynamics-- I mean, <i>harenadynamics</i>.<br /><br />Obstacle 2: According to biology as we understand it, every creature generates a weak electric field based on biological processes, but that field is a far cry from biological processes generating the kind of energy necessary to produce a magnetic force strong enough to make "magnetic organs" that loosen and propel sand out of the way. Unless this organ can be expressed in biologically sound methods it steps out of fact into fantasy. However, as Sigmund Nastrazzurro said in the last post of this series, "While the hard-boiled scientist in me rejected them as utterly impossible, the somewhat more romantic SF fan, also inside me, decided not to care one bit." I'm sure we can all enjoy a "magna-swimmer" on some level even if it's impossible based on our current understanding.Evan Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10493966209787828900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-72475331581616761982011-03-27T21:26:10.873+02:002011-03-27T21:26:10.873+02:00...i think. the organs would have to be at the fro......i think. the organs would have to be at the front of the body, right? pulling the organism froward via magnetic attraction?<br /><br />(i had this once, but i feel like i'm losing it)trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-9443739746651729632011-03-27T21:16:12.035+02:002011-03-27T21:16:12.035+02:00Like the way magnets repell iron filings of the sa...Like the way magnets repell iron filings of the same pole? (North repells North, attracts South)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-13362514275806258802011-03-27T14:41:16.173+02:002011-03-27T14:41:16.173+02:00i have an idea. what if there was a planet that ha...i have an idea. what if there was a planet that had low gravity, was very desert like, and had a very metallic composition? i beleve that such a planet would favor sandswimmers. the desert enviroment would give reason, and the low gravaty might make it easyer (like j.w.bjerk said), but what would really help is the metal. my hypothosized creatures would have developed magnetic organs that loosed the sand and propel it forward. dose that sound posseble, or can that just not happen?trex841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-58937582323118119392011-03-27T05:51:57.394+02:002011-03-27T05:51:57.394+02:00There's also the Marsupial Mole (as seen on &...There's also the Marsupial Mole (as seen on 'Weird Creatures' hosted by Nick Baker - youtube has a few of his adventures)<br /><br />...but of the mole, I could only find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqkoY0XcSGo (Baker says it swims through sand better than placental moles of North America and Africa)<br /><br /><br />Mr. Black - <br />>After all of this I'm wondering what kind of evolutionary pressures would even select for such an expensive trait.<br />Well, based on _bipes biporus_ (two-legged burrowing lizard), I'd guess that its in part to take advantage of all the insects that other animals are too big to chase.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-58614663127365939412011-03-27T01:00:47.655+01:002011-03-27T01:00:47.655+01:00After all of this I'm wondering what kind of e...After all of this I'm wondering what kind of evolutionary pressures would even select for such an expensive trait. Predator evasion? Ambush predation? Body temperature regulation? Is sand-swimming better because it's more difficult to maintain stable tunnels in a semi-fluid medium like sand can be?<br /><br />The breathing obstacle could also potentially be bypassed by periodically surfacing as dolphins do: spend a brief moment to get a new lungful of air then back under the sand. Or maybe breathing through the skin like amphibians might result in a better air exchange.<br /><br />And what about creatures that may swim in sand mixed with water? Could they extract needed oxygen more easily from the water than from the air?Evan Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10493966209787828900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-55509727046403761352011-03-26T17:11:00.559+01:002011-03-26T17:11:00.559+01:00I wonder what the best case scenario would be for ...I wonder what the best case scenario would be for a large sand-swimmer if you constructed a planet to be friendly to it.<br /><br />Obviously if the "sand" was a less dense mineral that would help a lot. Though my geology is not strong enough to make a suggestion. Also lower gravity would help some, at least in swimming to greater depths, but maybe not a lot for movement since mass/inertia is probably the main limiting factor.j. w. bjerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800512284198234202noreply@blogger.com