tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post487081304015304152..comments2024-03-25T09:31:36.926+01:00Comments on Furahan Biology and Allied Matters: Lifting the cloak on CloakfishSigmund Nastrazzurrohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-70459203589934287862011-10-29T17:08:40.445+02:002011-10-29T17:08:40.445+02:00Well then I think our best guesses are the best we...Well then I think our best guesses are the best we have to go by. I stand by my theory that the niches of "mid-range" filter feeders on Earth are taken up by invertebrates, and so we don't see them among similar sizes of fish.<br /><br />A species of note: the manta ray. It could potentially fall into that "mid-range" niche, at least compared to the larger end of the scale. Also noteworthy is the fact that it's the largest ray on the planet. Is there some sort of pressure for filter feeders to evolve into larger forms? Could it be the abundance of plankton, or perhaps some metabolic requirement, like how herbivores have large, complex digestive tracts to deal with plant material?Evan Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10493966209787828900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-25275332646901543712011-10-29T12:42:44.770+02:002011-10-29T12:42:44.770+02:00To all: I searched Google Scholar for filter feede...To all: I searched Google Scholar for filter feeder along with keywords such as mass, efficiency etc. <br /><br />I have not found any paper that took both filter feeding by small animals (coral) and large ones (whale sharks, whales) into account. Several people wondered about why filter feeders make up such a large proportion of the largest sea animals, but without a definite answer. For the time being I can only guess at whether filter feeders are under-represented in medium-sized animals. <br /> What that means for cloakfish is probably that there are no strong arguments against them being filter feeders.Sigmund Nastrazzurrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-52591403662714192182011-10-25T22:14:30.906+02:002011-10-25T22:14:30.906+02:00The paddle-fish comes to mind as an in between fis...The paddle-fish comes to mind as an in between fish filter feeder. However, they are confined mostly to freshwater rivers, free from sponges and much of the other size extreme ones.Jacob H Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15727848397855759656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-28544540161270481382011-10-24T22:34:00.425+02:002011-10-24T22:34:00.425+02:00J.W., Rodlox, Spugpow and Evan,
Thank you for you...J.W., Rodlox, Spugpow and Evan,<br /><br />Thank you for your comments. I tried to find papers on the size distribution of filter feeders but have not found anything useful yet. Possibly no-one has yet wondered about the best size for a filter feeder. I knew there were some more species when I wrote the post (I had ducks in mind). Bit look at predators: they come in sizes from microscopic to VERY macroscopic, with no sizes missing. This does not seem to be the case for filter feeders, in whom there seem to be large gaps. Perhaps there is no 'law' here but just a coincidence. I will try to find out more. In fact the new mouth could be a central opening within the outer, ring-like opening. It could then allow some cloakfish to be filter feeders while allowing other to be less restricted. <br /><br />As for the present fish-like mouth, that is an experiment. The version just before that had four jaws/flaps, with the divisions vertically and horizontally. A major reason for changing that was that I just finished a series of Fishes IV, all with four jaws, so I felt like a change. That effect will wear off and then I will make a final choice for the cloakfish. <br /><br />I do not really consider using 3D computer programs cheating. I once learned the basics of 'real' perspective drawing: it is a skill, but not the most exciting part of the work. Using a 3D program is like digital painting itself: you keep the creativity but gain time. Real cheating would be to take someone else's design and pretending it is your own. You sometimes see that happening with SF and fantasy book covers.Sigmund Nastrazzurrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449461215427527447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-88076416629001008722011-10-24T16:56:26.395+02:002011-10-24T16:56:26.395+02:00I was going to mention anchovies as well, but I...I was going to mention anchovies as well, but I'd also like to point out that while anchovies eat plankton they also eat tiny fish. Is it possible that at the size range we're discussing filter feeding is less effective and doesn't occur as an exclusive means of eating? Or is it possible that, as <b>j. w. bjerk</b> said, bivalves, sponges, etc. already occupy the niche so swimming filter feeders simply can't compete at that size?<br /><br />"Cheating" as discussed here seems like a highly subjective and nebulous thing to me. I mean, I've used the exact same technique with almost all of my nereid illustrations; does that mean that I'm not a real artist? If an artist uses a wooden articulated mannequin, a still life or even a live model does that mean that they're cheating?<br /><br />I don't understand the motivation for the redesign of the cloakfish's mouth. I don't necessarily see a problem with all cloakfish being filter feeders; it simply means that they're adapted well enough to dominate the niche in all their sizes and environments. If, however, you'd like to explore some radiative speciation then more predatory forms could certainly come about. The familiar horizontally oriented mouth doesn't seem very alien, but that doesn't make it implausible.Evan Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10493966209787828900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-69700128972342810262011-10-24T07:49:13.844+02:002011-10-24T07:49:13.844+02:00if someone gives you a hard time about if that ima...if someone gives you a hard time about if that image had a fin missing, you could say "why yes, a predator bit it off."<br /><br />(like sharks do to some sea turtles)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-57831075948598002772011-10-23T19:54:22.800+02:002011-10-23T19:54:22.800+02:00You know, the mouth doesn't have to have tetr...You know, the mouth doesn't have to have tetrapartate symmetry. I think what bothers me about it is the asymmetry between the upper and lower jaws, since in a radial animal they ought to be identical.Spugpowhttp://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-89149324607059769352011-10-23T19:41:54.211+02:002011-10-23T19:41:54.211+02:00Awesome as always. I get a kick every time you rev...Awesome as always. I get a kick every time you reveal something new about Furaha, and I'm a huge fan of this behind the scenes stuff.<br /><br />I have the same dilemma with "cheating". It isn't logical, but things like, say, motion capture in place of animation really annoy me. In this case however, it seems like you are using the computer not as a shortcut, but as a way to dramatically improve the quality of the picture :)<br /><br />Regarding mid-sized filter feeders, two examples that come to mind are anchovies and paddlefish. <br /><br />The cloak fish are so cool, they're definitely some of my favorite Furahan animals. That said, I'm not sure I like the redesign. The lumpy mouth doesn't mesh well with the almost machined-looking body, and the lack of radial symmetry strikes me as odd. in addition, the design is very similar to that of Earth fish and furahan Hexapods: personally, I think a more alien mouth arrangement would set these animals apart from the other creatures on the planet. Maybe manta-ray- like facial lobes?Spugpowhttp://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-89765093770601595272011-10-22T22:34:14.933+02:002011-10-22T22:34:14.933+02:00glad to see you back. hope everything's settl...glad to see you back. hope everything's settled down.<br /><br />the ray-like Fish IV appears to have its lower jaw/tube lowered. a very nice detail to include.<br /><br />I particularly like the size comparison picture. (the smaller two seem similar - same group of Fish, or paralel evolution?)<br /><br />that's an interesting change to the cloakfish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5821098719340852065.post-31896205852200032372011-10-22T20:45:21.927+02:002011-10-22T20:45:21.927+02:00"I cannot think of sardine- or tuna-sized fil..."I cannot think of sardine- or tuna-sized filter feeders."<br /><br />Do you mean fish-like creatures specifically?<br /><br />If not most bivalves, sponges and other water-sucking invertebrates, are sessile filter feeders. Various crustaceans are filter-feeders to one degree or another.<br /><br />Many jellyfish and coral polyps use essentially the same feeding method. It doesn't seem to be of great significance that to that method that individual coral polyps are small and some jelly-fish are huge.<br /><br /> The crazy flamingo and "crab-eater" seal are too.<br /><br /><br />My guess is that for non-sessile creatures filter feeding is a highly specialized nitch, which relies largely on a few insanely prolific crustacean species, especially "krill". Under such circumstances it doesn't surprise me that different sizes don't have equal representation.<br /><br />On Furaha, i think the behavior and commonness of the filter-feeder's prey would be the most important factor in determining what sizes of filter-feeders would work.<br /><br /><br />---As always an interesting readj. w. bjerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800512284198234202noreply@blogger.com